ONGOING DEFAULT THEME CONTEST!!!

[ZincAlloy]

We do need an indicator for this. I just made a red volume slider icon. which targets need it?

[scharkalvin]

This discussion about volume level in db makes me wonder about something.
Do most DMP devices adjust volume level by scaling the numbers to the D/A converter or do they adjust the gain of an amplifier (or attenuation stage) in the analog audio stages?  If the former, then yes you can cause clipping by presenting numbers greater than 2**16.  If the latter, than there is NO WAY that you can cause clipping unless the output of the D/A stage overdrives the audio chain.
In the latter case though the DB level would apply to what ...  the gain of the amplifier chain?

Adjusting the volume by scaling the D/A value should cause more than clipping, it should also wreak the S/N ratio?  Not to mention that this also depends on how the mp3, ogg, or other codec files were built.

[ZincAlloy]

I think the volume is adjusted by changing an amplifier's gain. you sure can drive an amplifier into clipping...

[scharkalvin]

you sure can drive an amplifier into clipping

Yes, but if the volume indicator in DB shows the gain of the audio channel clipping will only happen if the signal out of the D/A over drives the amplifier.  This won't happen for all source material.  Is there a standard among players as to audio channel gain and signal output from the D/A stage?  Probably not.  (iPods seem to have the greatest signal output,  at least in driving external amplifiers and headphones).

[ZincAlloy]

a volume indicator can't indicate clipping. the clipping indicator of the meter can do this, but that one's for digital level.

[soap]

You obviously have a very strong personal view about the 0dB level.
The fix you propose (using the WPS to indicate 0dB+) would require ALL graphical WPS to use this technique.

No - it would require the proposed default WPS to use this technique.

The method I proposed (pre-cut) could be implemented at the build level for each target, and would be effective regardless of the subsequent WPS selection.

Llorean already explained how digital precut is not an ideal solution for analog gain.

Incidentally, I don't remember seeing any significant forum traffic related to this issue. Is it possible that most don't care or notice clipping?

Many of us who care use a WPS with a numerical volume display.  The existing default WPS has a numerical volume display.  Nobody is asking the graphical nature of this WPS to be changed before inclusion as the default WPS (lord knows I'd prefer it that way) - all that is being asked is a simple graphical tweak to indicate an "overdrive" situation.  

[scharkalvin]

I installed the cabbie2.0 theme on my gigabeat.
I tried changing the foreground color (I wanted the
text to be in amber/yellow for better contrast) and
now the icons have lost their color and the rockbox
backdrop on the menu screen is gone.  I tried changing
the foreground color back,  the icons and backdrop are
still gone.

[crzyboyster]

true, but ironically the user IS seeing 16bit graphics.

btw, your ports aren't looking clean and sleek...  

ZincAlloy, I would probably get mad after you saying that, but after taking a close look at the ports I did, I think that they need the background images in 24 bit because they really aren't looking sleek and clean If I do that, I'll do some more updates and do the renaming for it.

Another question: Say the unifont version of a theme uses a different background image, should I name it differently, like 320x240x16U or something?

[ZincAlloy]

yeah, only the backgrounds should be enough. the icons are looking ok.

that unifont renaming thing makes sense....

[crzyboyster]

I have another question: Should the ipod ports read track, artist, album instead of artist, album, track because most ipod users are accustomed to the track, artist, album order? Or should we maintain uniformity and keep it artist, album, track on all targets?

ZincAlloy: Does the unifont ipod video port use any images that are different from the normal ipod video port?

Also the gigabeat version seems to be using 16 bit graphics as well because the background isn't looking clean and sleek  

[soap]

Are you all judging the "sleekness" of the dithering on target or on the simulator?

[crzyboyster]

I'm judging by the screendumps on the defaultwps wiki page...

[ZincAlloy]

no, the images are the same.
I'm all for uniformity. Maybe we should change the order on all targets? I've been thinking about that before. any opinions?
Having the song title first does make most sense, but the current order feels just right as well. that's why I haven't tried to change it.

[crzyboyster]

I just tested out the nano port on my actual ipod nano and there seems to be no problem with the clean and sleek thing on the actual device...

[ZincAlloy]

ok... compared it to a "sleeker" one?